Cynical Nation

There ARE no political benefits in framing a coherent Democratic policy stance on Iraq right now.

Elections are still a year away, and there's a lot that can change, and a lot of ways those changes can work against Dems, not the least of which is the present overall control of cable news and a lot of print news cycles by the GOP machine and the control of policy and initiative by the White House and the united GOP Congress.

I realize it makes red-staters crazy. That's the whole point, and I like it; and you know WHY it makes you crazy with frustration:

It puts the power and the cards in Democrats' hands, it makes the GOP stick its neck out first, it puts incredible pressure on GOP pols who have to go home and defend THEIR positions with both hands, and while they're answering angry or concerned constituents, it leaves them no time to attack Dem opponents' positions.

It's win-win fo Dems, and since we do not control any aspect of Governmnet, we have to marshal and use anything that makes us stronger, more fluid, more able to call the plays, set the tempo, and carry the football to repeated scores instead of having to play defense all the time and having to react to GOP initiatives like in 2002.

I LOVE the fact that Nancy Pelosi and Murtha and Biden can kick Bush and GOP ass, while other Dems like Hillary can make steady headway in red America, still be powerful Dems, and be hawkish and for increasing troop strength.

The GOP's elected members put all their eggs in one basket and went 100% with the President, and now that Bush's fortunes have all but hit bottom, they are beginning to panic.

The GOP, and the GOP's propaganda arms including this blog are finally beginning to realize that incumbency carries power, but it can also be a 500-pound lead weight when things are not going right. Ask Kilgore in Virginia.

And there's plenty wrong in Iraq and in this country for Dems to use against the President and against the GOP.

I've been amazed, energized, and inspired by the job that Howard Dean, along with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have turned in. They've been near flawless for months now.

Best of all, America tells us we're RIGHT!

There's a whole long string of critical issues where the GOP and the President have fallen behind the Dems by over twenty points in the polls, and it will be a long, tough climb back.

Especially with us continually kicking you in the face as you try to climb back up the ladder!

Barry,
Your analysis is very poor. The democrats are simply split at this point. Half of them believe we should pull out as soon as possible (as the majority of the country does), while the rest have various strategic views. In any case thats by no means a political handicap. The one who messed things up big time is Bush, not the democrats. He is the one who does NOT have plan (and never did).

Snap! That's why they call 'em the "Looney Left."

I had almost forgotten the reason...well, no...I guess I hadn't forgotten the reason...I just hadn't thought about it in two or three days.

The reason the Democrats have no position on Iraq is the same reason they have NO coherant position on the war on terrorism in general - they don't acknowledge that it exists.

"What war on terrorism," they ask.

"There is NO terrorist threat," bellows the village idiot Michael Moore.

The Sheehan-Moore wing of that Party thinks that the Patriot Act is a bigger threat to America than the spectre of more 9/11s?

The fact of the matter is that the war on terrorism will not end within most, if any of our lifetimes. That is true no matter who is steering the ship.

The Capitalist West simply can't live peacefully with Islamo-fascism. It's a barrier to much needed energy reserves and at least as importantly, millions of potential new customers.

Islamo-fascism has what the previous global threat (world socialism) never had - followers fanatical enough to use themselves as weapons in the war against Western Capitalism.

The Soviet Union is dead, and it has taken with it Soviet or "democratic socialism"...in the West today, it can be safely said, "We are ALL Capitalists now."

No one even dares advance "socialist values" or talks of "dialectics and materialism" any more and rightly so, those are the vestiges of an utterly failed ideology.

This new threat (Islamo-fascism) is a cultural clash, and not merely a political one, so whereas even today's American Liberals have capitulated on such things as tax policy, the failure of nationalization and the need for open markets, it is unlikely that world events are ever going to change the views of these cultist fanatics.

That's probably why the Sheehan-Moore wing of the Democratic Party admire the Islamo-cultists so much - they refuse to bend to reason.

In that regard, they have a lot in common, BOTH of those groups are ideological zealots. The Islamo-cultists cling to the inane belief that this cult called Wahhabism can take them back to the 9th Century, the pinnacle of Arabic power, while the Moore-Sheehan cultists inanely and naively believe that Marxism can somehow be ressurected, "If we all just believe hard enough."

The extreme-Left keeps that inane faith no matter how many times they're rejected by the American people - even now, the likes of Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich keep prattling, that "The Democrats have to move even more to the Left to distinguish themselves from Republicans."

It's a very sad day when Hillary Clinton is "the voice of reason" for that Party!

It is obvious that it is the Neocons and Islamo-fascists who have the most in common. In fact, the only difference is the religion. All of the other beliefs are exactly the same. The Patriot Act was a large step towards a fascist state.

Again, anyone who opposes the Patriot Act, simply DOESN'T understand it.

The Patriot Act does NOT open new venues for law enforcement, it merely allows police to use the same techniques (roving wire taps, mobile phone tracking, no-knock warrants, round the clock surveillance, etc) on terrorists that they're already allowed to use on suspected drug dealers.

I didn't hear a peep when NYC police cracked down on urban gun crime by randomly "tossing" (throwing them up against a wall and patrting them down) groups of inner city male teens, cordening off entire city blocks in "gun sweeps," etc and rightly so - those Bill Bratton policies WORKED and violated no one's actual rights.

The Patriot Act doesn't go nearly as far as Bratton's policies still being carried out in various NYC neighborhoods.

In fact, the primary thing that the Patriot Act did was to allow various government agencies like the CIA, NSA & FBI to cooperate and share information.

Yes, terrorist sympathizers charge "That's allowing the CIA to spy on American citizens on American soil!"

Not to worry on that score, you're only at risk if you have something nefarious to hide.

Ah, and now you use exactly the same reasoning as the "guilty until proven innocent" crowd that our founding fathers so opposed.

If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't care if you are spied on, your house is destroyed in a contraband search, you are put in prison without legal council indefinitely, your wife and daughters are strip searched in a back room.

Hell, in fact, if you are innocent, you shouldn't mind having a chip implanted in your skull giving the government GPS information of your whereabouts at all times, and you shouldn't mind submitting your DNA into a huge government database to help catch crooks.

By golly, if you are REALLY innocent, you shouldn't fuss to much if you are tortured for a few weeks just to satisfy the government's curiousity.

Come on, goddammit, be patriotic! Support the Patriot Act! They should have named the Bill of Rights something more patriotic sounding if they didn't want it trumped by the unconstitutional Patriot Act!

In fact, let's all support our trustworthy and honorable congress to pass all kinds of laws that run counter to the Constitution! No wait, let's but strict Constitutionalists on the court ... um ... no wait ... oh, I can't decide, because what I really want is just the fucking NEOCON AGENDA implemented!

Wrong!

No one undergoes any of those things WITHOUT "reasonable suspicions."

Those inner kids "tossed" by the NYPD - "reasonable suspicion."

Many drug dealers have been "brought to justice," by using these techniques based only on "reasonable suspicions," a term that is not clearly defined.

No hard evidence is needed in such instances, just "reasonable suspicion." Those techniques are used to GET evidence!

It's a good yardstick (reasonable suspicion), otherwise no crimes would ever get solved.

No, the Patriot Act hasn't been abused at all, while it has allowed for the apprehension, detention and in many cases, deporation of many suspected terrorists since 9/11/01.

Oh no? Are you SURE? Bwahahahahaah!

Read on, if you can read, you dummy:

"Jury clears former Florida professor of terrorism-related charge"

By PHIL LONG AND MARTIN MERZER

TAMPA - A former college professor was found not guilty Tuesday of helping to lead a terrorist group that allegedly established a cell in Florida, ending a lengthy trial that balanced allegations of terrorist-related acts against assertions of abused constitutional rights.

After 13 days of deliberation, a federal jury acquitted Sami Al-Arian, once a computer sciences professor at the University of South Florida, of eight of the 17 charges against him -- including a key charge that he served as a leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad and conspired to murder and maim people in Israel and elsewhere.

After serving 33 months in jail awaiting trial, Al-Arian and Fariz were returned to prison and will remain there until prosecutors decide whether to retry them on the deadlocked charges.

Taken as a whole, the verdict dealt a blow to one of the federal government's first major tests of the expanded search and surveillance powers authorized by the controversial Patriot Act, which was passed shortly after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The four defendants had been accused of racketeering, conspiracy to maim and murder, and providing material support for Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Branded by the U.S. government as a terrorist organization, the PIJ reportedly has killed more than 100 people in Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Wrong answer Bailey.

In fact, wrong case to try and use as an example.

No innocent man was arrested in that case.

That a jury didn't like the fact that some of the charges were over a decade old (if they'd only had the Patriot Act back in 1995 Sami Al-Arian would've been nailed back then) doesn't make this blatant terror supporter "innocent."

You get the distinction between "Not Guilty" and "Innocent", right?

The OJ case should've made it abundantly clear that "Not Guilty" is not even close to being the same as "innocent" of the charges. OJ Simpson was found "Not Guilty" in a criminal court and sunsequently found guilty in a Civil Trial and made liable for Civil Damages.

OJ Simpson was found "Not Guilty," BUT not "Innocent" of the crimes he was charged with. Same with Al-Arian. So only a complete dolt would look to the Al-Arian case as an example of "abuse of the Patriot Act.

OK, so apparently you don't know much about Sami Al-Arian.

No problem, ignorance on any given subject is no crime, nor even a sign of weakness. We're all ignorant of some things.

In this instance, please let me help you out with some pertinent information about the guy you seem to think is "innocent."

"In the late 1980s, Al-Arian establishing two think tanks, the Islamic Concern Project (also know as the Islamic Committee for Palestine) and the World and Islam Studies Enterprise (WISE). Several terrorism experts and government officials have alleged that ICP and WISE served as financial and strategic conduits for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), a designated terrorist organization.

How did ICP and WISE Support Terrorism?

ICP, also known as the Islamic Committee for Palestine (ICP), sponsored several conferences in the late 1980s and early 1990s where known terrorists attended and lectured. At these conferences, posters of PIJ and its emblem were prominently displayed onstage. ICP’s most infamous featured speaker at a conference was Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, currently serving a life sentence in the U.S. for organizing a failed attempt to destroy several New York City landmarks. Other speakers included Sheikh Abdel Aziz Odeh, the spiritual leader of PIJ. ICP also invited several speakers who could not attend the conferences, including Fathi Shikaki, at the time the leader of PIJ, and Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden’s ideological mentor and founder of al-Qaeda. Al-Arian stated of Azzam at a conference, “Azzam also sends his salutations to the conference, and he has not been able to be with us due to the political conditions in Afghanistan.”

Through both ICP and WISE’s pretense of legitimacy, Al-Arian was able to secure visas for several individuals seeking to gain entry into the United States. Among those whom Al-Arian obtained a visa for was Ramadan Abdullah Shallah, who served as WISE’s Director of Administration. Shockingly, Shallah left WISE in 1995 to head the terrorist group PIJ after its previous leader, Fathi Shikaki was assassinated.

William West of the INS (Immigration & Naturalization Service) wrote an affidavit in late 1995 to receive judicial approval to execute a search warrant against ICP, WISE, and the residence and office of Al-Arian. In the affidavit, West details the alleged offenses of Al-Arian, stating “I have probable cause to believe that ICP and WISE were utilized by Sami al-Arian and Ramadan Abdallah Shallah as ‘fronts’ in order to enable individuals to enter the United States, in an apparent lawful fashion, despite the fact that these individuals were international terrorists.”

Sami Al-Arian has actively fundraised for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. In 1995 raid on Al-Arian’s residence, the FBI found a letter written by Al-Arian shortly after a PIJ suicide bombing that left 18 people dead in Israel. The letter solicits funding for “the jihad effort in Palestine.” Al-Arian, according to an FBI translation of the Arabic letter, praised the terrorist attack, writing, “The latest operation carried out by the two mujahidin (warriors), who were martyred for the sake of God, is the best evidence of what the believing few can do in the face of Arab and Islamic collapse before the Zionist enemy and of the still-burning firebrand of faith, steadfastness and challenge.”

On a videotape of a 1991 conference in Cleveland, Ohio, seized by FBI agents, al-Arian is introduced as “the president of the Islamic Committee for Palestine, and a short briefing about the Islamic Committee for Palestine, it is the active arm of the Islamic Jihad movement in Palestine, and we like to call it the Islamic Committee for Palestine here for security reasons.” After being introduced, Al-Arian stated, “Let us continue the protests. Let us damn America. Let us damn Israel. Let us damn their allies until death.”

In another seized videotape, Al-Arian delivered an impassioned speech before a rapt audience at a high school in Chicago in 1991. Al-Arian referred to Jews as “monkeys and pigs” and stated, “Mohammad is leader. The Qu’ran is our constitution. Jihad is our path. Victory to Islam. Death to Israel. Revolution! Revolution! Until Victory! Rolling, rolling to Jerusalem.” "

http://siteinstitute.org/bin/articles.cgi?ID=news5203&Category=news&Subcategory=0

There are many, many more Al-Arian's out there awaiting prosecution.

Again, the Patriot Act, has never once been abused since its inception. Thank God for it. We should've had it much, much earlier.

Looks like you'll have to wait for another case to try and use as an example of "abuse"...UNLESS, of course, you have some evidence that Al-Arian is actually "innocent" of the charges filed against him and that his prosecution was somehow unwarranted?

Wow, such a clear cut case and he was found NOT GUILTY, which means ... um, NOT GUILTY on the major charges, which you nevertheless insist are still accurate.

Let's see, this is what country? Oh, that's right, this is AMERICA. In AMERICA you are allowed to have your opinions, such as condemning Israel for murdering Palestinian children, and condemning the United State for supporting Israel.

The jury said that NOT ONE SHRED of evidence was presented where the "guilty" defendant called for violence. The worst the prosecution could come up with was he said "Death to Israel" ... once.

Hell, I'll say it ten times:

Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel
Death to Israel

Am I a terrorist? I didn't say to kill Jews, I just wish the State of Israel would die. I really do. The should all come back and live here in the United States.

You know why he was found NOT GUILTY of the main charges? Because he is just a college professor who supports and cares about his own people, and the children of his people.

He has already served 33 months in prison, and they aren't letting him out yet. He is not even accused of harming a hair on any person's head.

This was completely an abuse of the Patriot Act. The mere existence of the Patriot Act is illegal and unconstitutional. It is NOT LIMITED to foreigners or terrorism.

Learn to read. Learn to think for yourself. Stop listening to Rush Limbaugh for fuck's sake.

No sane person even insinuates that Al-Arian was "prosecuted because of his beliefs." He was prosecuted for direct ties to terrorism and for soliciting funds for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Read more carefully;

"Sami Al-Arian has actively fundraised for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. In 1995 raid on Al-Arian’s residence, the FBI found a letter written by Al-Arian shortly after a PIJ suicide bombing that left 18 people dead in Israel. The letter solicits funding for “the jihad effort in Palestine.” Al-Arian, according to an FBI translation of the Arabic letter, praised the terrorist attack, writing, “The latest operation carried out by the two mujahidin (warriors), who were martyred for the sake of God, is the best evidence of what the believing few can do in the face of Arab and Islamic collapse before the Zionist enemy and of the still-burning firebrand of faith, steadfastness and challenge.”

AND

"William West of the INS (Immigration & Naturalization Service) wrote an affidavit in late 1995 to receive judicial approval to execute a search warrant against ICP, WISE, and the residence and office of Al-Arian. In the affidavit, West details the alleged offenses of Al-Arian, stating “I have probable cause to believe that ICP and WISE were utilized by Sami al-Arian and Ramadan Abdallah Shallah as ‘fronts’ in order to enable individuals to enter the United States, in an apparent lawful fashion, despite the fact that these individuals were international terrorists.”

The charges against him were investigated, the ties to terror were NOT dismissed by any jury, they merely found some of the charges "too old." Some were over ten years old, only because we didn't have this much needed Patriot Act back in the mid-1990s.

Please re-think your position on defending people with strong and obvious ties to international terrorism. It makes you look as bad as some of your purported racial beliefs do.

Oh, yeah, Israel is completely responsible for the deaths of innocent....waitaminnit, it was Palestine that started the infitada, and Palestine that rejected Ben Gurion's offer of peace, much to the chagrin of the Arab world. Damn those Israelis, and their common sense.

Sorry if I believe my own eyes instead of what I am told to believe. I see armed soldiers blowing away children with rocks. I see an advanced military slamming rockets into civilian areas. The Palestinians were kicked out of their homes and off their own land. Would you fight back?

If Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the other Supreme Court idiots who voted that the government can take away your home if Halliburton or Wal-Mart wants to use it keep it up, we both might find ourselves much like the Palestinians.

Are you siding with liberal activist judges?

You are a liberal.

Bailey, Bailey, Bailey, the Arabs TWICE sided with the Germans against the Anglo-American Alliance and found themselves on the losing side of TWO World Wars!

After the second World War, Germany was split and Israel was created by England & America as a homeland for the persecuted Jews.

The Jews are no more leaving Israel now, than are the Protestants (Ulstermen) leaving Norhtern Ireland now.

All of this gets away from your defending Sami Al-Arian, of whom William West, of the INS, said, “I have probable cause to believe that ICP and WISE (two groups founded by Al-Arian) were utilized by Sami al-Arian and Ramadan Abdallah Shallah as ‘fronts’ in order to enable individuals to enter the United States, in an apparent lawful fashion, despite the fact that these individuals were international terrorists.”

And a man who "actively fundraised for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad."

He was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. What part of this don't you comprehend? He was held illegally under the Patriot Act, which is unconstitutional, and imprisoned for 33 months illegally. No matter what some jackass thinks, he failed to prove it in court. The jury heard it all for months on end, and found otherwise.

If the guy had been a terrorist, I think the jury would have figured that out. Oh wait, they just aren't as smart as Neocons. They were tricked.

Bailey, I think the point you miss is this. The acquittals had nothing to do with the Patriot Act. It had nothing to do with how the evidence was obtained, but had everything to do with the evidence not being convincing.

Actually, if you'll read up carefully, the Palestinians weren't kicked off of anything. The Jews had legally bought and were in ownership of 2/3 of the land that became Israel, because the Arab owners saw no value in it. They only started bitching because the Jews had managed to drain the swamps, which then irrigated the desert, creating viable farmland. And England didn't create anything other than concentration camps on Cyprus. The United Nations held the vote to partition Israel, and Endland voted against it. The British commonwealth, the US, Russia, and other countries had voted to make Israel a country. And check your stats. For every thousand civilians killed by the infitada, Israel only killed several hundred, which is what having the best trained infantry in the world gets you. Every picture of Israel moving into a civilian area is just that. A single picture. On the other hand, you could make entire books of pictures of Palestinians moving into civilian Jewish areas, with the sole intent of killing innocents. Do your research. If wholeheartedly supporting Israel makes me a liberal, then fine, I'm a liberal. But you're arguments are faulty, so don't think you can prove me wrong. And comparing imminent domain to the Israel/Palestine situation simplifies the situation over there to a point it's almost insulting. And seeing as how I live in Texas, which recently moved to limit imminent domain, it really has no effect on me.

So, you are seriously arguing that more Jews have died than Palestinians, not to mention Muslims in general. You are seriously putting forth that argument.

Israel has the best military in the region, paid for by U.S. taxpayers and even manned by U.S. pilots in the beginning. Palestine has no military at all to speak of. That is why they throw rocks.

The Japanese have bought most of Hawaii, so should they just plant the Rising Sun and move in? Would you have a problem with that? Hey, they bought most of the land! The Japanese own Hawaii!

I don't know why everyone feels that you have to kiss Israel's ass. Maybe you all buy into the Zionist World Domination thing and want to make sure you are seen on the right side. Maybe the whole Holocaust exaggeration has had its intended effect and you feel that the Jews are poor victims. Think about it, why do we even have a label for it? There's Elvis, Madonna, and the Holocaust. One name, big impact. That's marketing.

WWII is not longer about the millions of brave men who died DEFENDING freedom and freeing the prisoners of war. It's all about the Jews and the "holocaust" ... retarded. Do some research, and you will see what a non-story it was at the end of the war. It was over time that the "holocaust" was built up into the be-all end-all event in human history.

"He was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. What part of this don't you comprehend? He was held illegally under the Patriot Act, which is unconstitutional, and imprisoned for 33 months illegally. No matter what some jackass thinks, he failed to prove it in court. The jury heard it all for months on end, and found otherwise.

If the guy had been a terrorist, I think the jury would have figured that out. Oh wait, they just aren't as smart as Neocons. They were tricked." (BH)

OK, THIS might be the dumbest arguemtn you've put forth here, though that covers a lot of territory, but the idea that an acquital, ANY acquital amounts to "wrongful prosecution" is so inane as to be beyond moronic.

Police ARE allowed to arrest and gather evidence, DA's are allowed to move foward with prosecutions and jury's can either acquit or, in some cases convict an truly innocent
suspect (of course, the suspect in this case wasn't innocent) nad NONE of that can be considered "wrongful prosecution."

The laws we live under, passed under a Congress sworn to uphold that Constitution, you mention, give the criminal justice system a rather wide latitude in gathering evidence, making arrests and trying suspects. The number of jailed suspects, later cleared via DNA evidence who win "Wroingful Prosecution" cases is very small, under 10%...and for good reason. The courts feel that such retaliatory actions might well result in hampering the prosecution of many real criminals, thus ONLY cases that can be proven as "malicious prosecutions," with a standard higher than that for "libel" (for a Libel or slander conviction, one has to, in effect, prove deliberate malice) and in the case of "Wrongful Prosecution" one must prove the police, the DA or the court system was NOT acting in good faith based upon "reasonable suspicion - a bar that is very, very hard to reach.

And NONE of that was due in any way to the Patriot Act.

I haven't taken any polls, but I'm pretty sure that most Americans two-thirds, at least, WANT the CIA to cooperate and be able to hand over the evidence they gather to the FBI, the NSA and local Police Departments. It merely allows ALL the evidecne against a suspect to be used in open court.

Everything else in the Patriot Act, has already been used by law enforcement on both American-born and foreign drug traffickers plying their trade here.

Don't read ABOUT the Patriot Act, read the Act itself; http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

And again, and most importantly Acquittal DOES NOT equal WRONGFUL PROSECUTUION.

OJ Simpson was acquitted in criminal court, but he was almost certainly guilty - GUILTY ENOUGH to be convicted in the "Wrongful Death" Civil Suit" that follwed his acquittal.

No "Malicious Prosecution" charge can be won by Simpson.

In fact, in 1978 a fire in a Waldbaum's supermarket killed six Brooklyn firefighters. A black construction worker who'd worked on site, who'd had a previous arson conviction was charged and convicted of that crime and spent nealy twenty years in prison for that crime.

It later turned out that, not only was he innocent of that crime, but that faulty wiring, NOT arson was the cause of that fire. Moreover, it turned out that then Brooklyn DA Elizabeth Holzman had known of evidence that pointed to clearing this suspect, but wanted to maintain her conviction rate of over 95%.

That case, is the only one that I can recall over the past thirty years that may have risen to the level of "Wrongful Prosecution" in my view, but I'm almost certain that fellow failed in his bid to win a suit based on those grounds.

Al-Arian falls into the "OJ class" (a guilty man acquitted), rather than that of the Brooklyn laborer who'd been convicted of a charge he was truly innocent of.

Get your head on straight Bailey, "Not Guilty" does NOT mean "innocent," and an acquittal DOESN'T equal "Wrongful Prosecution."