Ortho,
LOL. You have it all wrong (as always :). Italy did not win 2-1. They won 5-3 in the penalty kicks. The game was tied 1-1 and then they had the penalties. The red card did not lead to the penarty kicks. Just expulsion from the game. The only reason they had the penalty kicks was because they were tied and there had to be a winner.
Regarding the reason for the head butt, no-one knows. Apparently the Italian player provoked the French (Zidane) by telling him something very offensive, but noone else heard him. One rumor was that he called him a terrorist (Zidane is Algerian-French), but the Italian player strongly denied that rumor.
"Regarding the reason for the head butt, no-one knows. Apparently the Italian player provoked the French (Zidane) by telling him something very offensive, but noone else heard him. One rumor was that he called him a terrorist (Zidane is Algerian-French), but the Italian player strongly denied that rumor."
"They just don't know any better," or for "protected humans," "It's just their culture/nature."
To me, it's the same whether the culprit is First World or Third, just another dopey bastard (in this case Zinedine Zidane) being, well, a dope.
Of course you're aware that whenever a Westerner does something uncivilized or untoward, there's rarely, if ever any such justifications, merely pious accusations and white hot excoriations....presumably because "they should know better/BE better."
The rumor was from French sources. Some thought it was originated from Zidane, but the Italian made clear that he did NOT say that. It is likely that the Italian told him something else, something personally offensive, as it happens frequently in soccer, because in the video it is clear that he said something before Zidane attacked him. Zidane's behavior was unacceptable and bizzare. However, I am glad that Zidane got a red card and was kicked out of the game, because I was supporting the Italian team and they won. Big time.
No, I'm not claiming you had a bias for the French or Zidane, what I'm saying is that in most such matters, when a, shall we say, "disadvantaged person" does something stupid, brutish or uncivilized, the cause is always presumed to be provocation by a member of the presumed "more civilized tribe" (Westerners primarily).
It is generally NOT done when a Westerner say, beans a member of an opposing team, presumably because "they should know better."
I guarantee, if David Beckham had done something so stupid, people wouldn't be making excuses for him, they'd be crucifying him for letting his emotions lose the game for his team.
All sports at any high level come down to a confrontation of wills - one team, often one player, (Michael Jordan was great at it) exerting his will over others and the game itself.
This creates inevitable inter-personal conflicts that are often taken very personally.
That is usually the cause of such unfortunate/unsportsmanlike incidents.
You can ignore personal provocation easier than you can ignore someone trying to impose their will over you (the sports equivalent of making you their "prison bitch").
That's also why it's so bigoted for us to hold to this PC double standard - it presumes that Third World or "disadvantaged" players are more prone to violence, etc - "It's their culture/nature," when really, it's the nature of the game...the nature of sports itself.
It's what often makes sporting events such great drama.
Hey JMK,
I think you have a point, in general, but I dont think this really apploes in this case. It is well known for people who are familiar with soccer, that provocations like that (not political ones of course) happen routinely in soccer. I dont think anyone has tried to justify what Zidane did, except some desperate French soccer funs who are very upset that they lost to the (superior) Italian team. David Bekham has done similar stupid things in the past and he has received red carts and ejected from games. And guess what, many British funs tried to justify his behavior. Soccer is a whole different world. Anyway, Viva Italia, campioni del mondo!!!!
All fans will protest and argue calls, BW, usually any call that goes against a fan's team is a "bad call," but this is somewhat different than that.
It's the rationalizing of a dumb move (blaming it on provocation) rather than expecting the same self-discipline we'd expect from others.
Provoking great players to either "throw them off their game," or get them to lash or foul out of a game has always been a strategy in sports. It's not a very ethical strategy, but it's one way to try and deal with a situation in which a team feels over-matched.
Larry Bird of the Celtics was great at that sort of thing, so was Jordan and the "Bad Boy" Pistons of the late 1980s.
Here's something from an article on the World Cup Final;
" "Zizou is someone who reacts to things," said Aime Jacquet, Zidane's coach at the 1998 World Cup. "Unfortunately he could not control himself. It's terrible to see him leave this way." ...
“Zidane's red card was anything but unusual. He was sent off 14 times in his career at the club and international level.
At the 1998 World Cup, he stomped on a Saudi Arabian opponent. Sitting out a two-match ban, he came back to score two goals against Brazil in the final.
Five years ago with Juventus, he head-butted an opponent in a Champions League match against Hamburger SV after being tackled from behind.
The reaction to Sunday's outburst was mixed in France. President Jacques Chirac called Zidane "a genius of world football," and former Sports Minister Marie-George Buffet said Zidane's aggressive act was unforgivable for its effect on children watching the game."
Comments
No, Barry, tell us how you really feel about soccer.
Posted by: OTTami | July 10, 2006 01:22 PM
can someone tell me if the penalty kick that led to Italy's 2-1 victory was the result of that Zidane head-butt?
I can't figure out if red cards lead to penalty kicks or just expulsion from the game.
and why did he head butt the guy? Can you not use your hands in a Soccer fight too?
Posted by: ortho | July 10, 2006 05:05 PM
Ortho,
LOL. You have it all wrong (as always :). Italy did not win 2-1. They won 5-3 in the penalty kicks. The game was tied 1-1 and then they had the penalties. The red card did not lead to the penarty kicks. Just expulsion from the game. The only reason they had the penalty kicks was because they were tied and there had to be a winner.
Regarding the reason for the head butt, no-one knows. Apparently the Italian player provoked the French (Zidane) by telling him something very offensive, but noone else heard him. One rumor was that he called him a terrorist (Zidane is Algerian-French), but the Italian player strongly denied that rumor.
Posted by: Blue Wind | July 10, 2006 05:42 PM
"Regarding the reason for the head butt, no-one knows. Apparently the Italian player provoked the French (Zidane) by telling him something very offensive, but noone else heard him. One rumor was that he called him a terrorist (Zidane is Algerian-French), but the Italian player strongly denied that rumor."
"They just don't know any better," or for "protected humans," "It's just their culture/nature."
To me, it's the same whether the culprit is First World or Third, just another dopey bastard (in this case Zinedine Zidane) being, well, a dope.
Of course you're aware that whenever a Westerner does something uncivilized or untoward, there's rarely, if ever any such justifications, merely pious accusations and white hot excoriations....presumably because "they should know better/BE better."
Check out the bigotry behind that PC brah.
Posted by: JMK | July 10, 2006 06:33 PM
The rumor was from French sources. Some thought it was originated from Zidane, but the Italian made clear that he did NOT say that. It is likely that the Italian told him something else, something personally offensive, as it happens frequently in soccer, because in the video it is clear that he said something before Zidane attacked him. Zidane's behavior was unacceptable and bizzare. However, I am glad that Zidane got a red card and was kicked out of the game, because I was supporting the Italian team and they won. Big time.
Posted by: Blue Wind | July 10, 2006 07:24 PM
well aren't i a big fart?
Posted by: ortho | July 10, 2006 08:32 PM
No, I'm not claiming you had a bias for the French or Zidane, what I'm saying is that in most such matters, when a, shall we say, "disadvantaged person" does something stupid, brutish or uncivilized, the cause is always presumed to be provocation by a member of the presumed "more civilized tribe" (Westerners primarily).
It is generally NOT done when a Westerner say, beans a member of an opposing team, presumably because "they should know better."
I guarantee, if David Beckham had done something so stupid, people wouldn't be making excuses for him, they'd be crucifying him for letting his emotions lose the game for his team.
All sports at any high level come down to a confrontation of wills - one team, often one player, (Michael Jordan was great at it) exerting his will over others and the game itself.
This creates inevitable inter-personal conflicts that are often taken very personally.
That is usually the cause of such unfortunate/unsportsmanlike incidents.
You can ignore personal provocation easier than you can ignore someone trying to impose their will over you (the sports equivalent of making you their "prison bitch").
That's also why it's so bigoted for us to hold to this PC double standard - it presumes that Third World or "disadvantaged" players are more prone to violence, etc - "It's their culture/nature," when really, it's the nature of the game...the nature of sports itself.
It's what often makes sporting events such great drama.
Posted by: JMK | July 10, 2006 08:37 PM
Hey JMK,
I think you have a point, in general, but I dont think this really apploes in this case. It is well known for people who are familiar with soccer, that provocations like that (not political ones of course) happen routinely in soccer. I dont think anyone has tried to justify what Zidane did, except some desperate French soccer funs who are very upset that they lost to the (superior) Italian team. David Bekham has done similar stupid things in the past and he has received red carts and ejected from games. And guess what, many British funs tried to justify his behavior. Soccer is a whole different world. Anyway, Viva Italia, campioni del mondo!!!!
Posted by: Blue Wind | July 10, 2006 09:11 PM
All fans will protest and argue calls, BW, usually any call that goes against a fan's team is a "bad call," but this is somewhat different than that.
It's the rationalizing of a dumb move (blaming it on provocation) rather than expecting the same self-discipline we'd expect from others.
Provoking great players to either "throw them off their game," or get them to lash or foul out of a game has always been a strategy in sports. It's not a very ethical strategy, but it's one way to try and deal with a situation in which a team feels over-matched.
Larry Bird of the Celtics was great at that sort of thing, so was Jordan and the "Bad Boy" Pistons of the late 1980s.
Here's something from an article on the World Cup Final;
" "Zizou is someone who reacts to things," said Aime Jacquet, Zidane's coach at the 1998 World Cup. "Unfortunately he could not control himself. It's terrible to see him leave this way." ...
“Zidane's red card was anything but unusual. He was sent off 14 times in his career at the club and international level.
At the 1998 World Cup, he stomped on a Saudi Arabian opponent. Sitting out a two-match ban, he came back to score two goals against Brazil in the final.
Five years ago with Juventus, he head-butted an opponent in a Champions League match against Hamburger SV after being tackled from behind.
The reaction to Sunday's outburst was mixed in France. President Jacques Chirac called Zidane "a genius of world football," and former Sports Minister Marie-George Buffet said Zidane's aggressive act was unforgivable for its effect on children watching the game."
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ap-wcup-zidane&prov=ap&type=lgns
Apparently Zidane has had a history of "reacting to things" in critical games like this.
Michael Jordan didn't do that, he put his anger into playing harder and making the other team pay on the court.
Posted by: JMK | July 10, 2006 10:49 PM