Cynical Nation

To strike a bargain with someone, doesn't 'trust' have to sort of enter into the picture? Do we trust Iran? Do you trust Iran? Can they be really counted on stop terrorism? Respect Israel '48?

More important than trust is that both sides must want to reach a deal.

The terms can be crafted to adequately address any trust issues with incentives to ensure that each side comply with the agreement.

Fred, if what you are doing doesn't work, do you keep doing it and expecting a different outcome?

The biggest obstacle is the prospect of the Iranian oil bourse. This is a nifty little threat to US currency domination and a big threat to us. I would say that negotiating an end to the Iranian oil bourse threat would be a good chip to bargain with in normalizing relations with Iran and creating a situation in which there was this cooperation and alliance. And yes, a commitment not to harm Israel (there doesn't have to be any love, just a lack of open hostility) would be another important agreement.

I just find it hard to see any grand deal enduring more than a few days. What's Iran's incentive to come to any deal? The arguments against us bombing/attacking are numerous ($100+ crude oil; no troops with which to go in; a much tougher terrain than Iraq, for one; threats to the Straits of Hormuz; even more Tehran-backed terrorism). What's the threat to them? Sanctions ain't happening, obviously. What sword is hanging over their heads that would induce them to give a little? So they continue on their merry journey to nucular weapons

What's Iran's incentive to come to any deal?

1. Lifting of sanctions
2. U.S. troops leave Iraq
3. Normalized relations
4. Increased foreign investment

And I'd love to see a US politician suggest this without the right condemning him for negotiating with terrorists. Same goes for the Iranian leader who suggests such a thing without being condemned (or worse) for dealing with the Great Satan.

That is an excellent idea, but it is unfortunately not on the neocon agenda.

The neocons want to have global hegemony. Like Hitler, they think they can "take over the world" like Pinky and The Brain.

To bad, because I love the idea. The Persians would be perfect to rule the Middle East. Iran, as a country, is not really all that religious. A little money and they would get rid of the righteous ridiculous raghead leading them.

So you think just by 'normalizing' relations with Iran that we'll demonopolize Russia in Europe, put a check on China and Iran, and they could 'take care' of straightening up the middle east?

Boy that is just awfully naive...i mean, nice sentiment and all...but you see it's a little late in the game as they have already proven they can dupe the US and the UN...they're going to do their damndest to be a superpower w or w/o the USA. i mean..they want to destroy the USA, and Israel. They frequently say so.

one day the nation of Iran will be different, but today is not that day.

Iran, as a country, is not really all that religious. (BH)

Sometimes, words fail me.

This is one.

i mean..they want to destroy the USA, and Israel.

Now THAT'S naive.

http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/supfacts/id401.html

It's never to late to learn, mal. Even you can become less ignorant if you stop listening to Rush and read for a change.

The current government in Iran IS indeed a radical Islamist one.

"At the time of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry.

Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States. At the time of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, 80,000 still remained in Iran. From then on, Jewish emigration from Iran dramatically increased, as about 20,000 Jews left within several months after the Islamic Revolution.

"On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8. In mid- and late 1980s, the Jewish population of Iran was estimated at 20,000–30,000. The reports put the figure at around 35,000 in mid-1990s and at less than 40,000 nowadays, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran.

"The anti Israel policies of the Iranian government, along with a perception among radical Muslims that all Jewish citizens support Zionism and the State of Israel, create a hostile atmosphere for the Jewish community. In 2004, many Iranian newspapers celebrated the one-hundredth anniversary of the publishing of the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Jews often are the target of degrading caricatures in the Iranian press. Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.

"Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews suffer from officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing. They may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads.

The legal system also discriminates against religious minorities who receive lower awards than Muslims in injury and death lawsuits and incur heavier punishments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_Iran

Man! I just keep smacking you across the nose with that rolled up newspaper of truth...and you keep yelping, like my little doggie.

God you are a retard. I said Iran as a country, meaning the whole country. Everyone knows their leaders are kooks -- they are religious extremists just like Bush.

Iran, not long ago, was fairly open and secular, for more than Arab cultures. You are simply an ignorant boob with low reading comprehension.

The people of Iran are fair less nutty about religion than our Republican party. Unfortunately, Bush correctly symbolizes the superstitious idiots he represents, while the government of Iran is a far cry from the what the majority believes or wants.

So, once again, you have proven yourself a long-winded no-nothing.

Mal referred to "the government of Iran."

You responded to Mal, thus your response, whether you intended it or not, addressed the government of Iran.

The vast majority of the people of Iran seem to have little, if any problem with that Sharia Law that condones official discrimination against Christians, Jews and other ethnic/religious minorities, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing, in that country, as there has been no real outcry from them over that.

Nor have the Muslim majority in Iran opposed the legal system there that also discriminates against religious minorities who receive lower awards than Muslims in injury and death lawsuits and incur heavier punishments.

Time and time again, I've educated you here, and yet....you steadfastly refuse to stay schooled.

JMK, you are an idiot. Mal commented on "the hcountry of Iran". You don't know any Iranians and obviously don't bother reading books.

Your opinions are gathered from Rush O'Reilly Hannity. They are based on propoganda. They mean nothing.

I gave you the sources above - and when people talk about Iran, or France, or the United States, they are NOT talking about "the people of those places, but the governments, as it is the governments of those places that make the policies of those countries.

Mal referred to the government of Iran, just as say, when someone like Bill O'Reilly talks about the "feckless, backstabbing French," he's talking about France's Chirac government, NOT all the French people.

That much is all too obvious.

Back to Barry's initial point;

What I LIKE about Barry's "gem" is that it does have some practicality to it- Iranians are not Arabs, they are Persians. That's why much of the "Arab world" sat out the recent fight between Iranian backed Hezbollah and Israel.

They are much more incensed over Arabic Hamas versus Israel.

Many Arab states fear an increasingly powerful Persia/Iraq.