Cynical Nation

I think if all the republicans had acted this fiscally responsibly then there’s a very good chance they’d have stayed in power. But it’s a moot point because they didn’t. As a whole the republican party has shown that they are clearly not the party of fiscal responsibility that they claim to be. Once they got power it didn’t take long for them to throw all of that out the window. It makes me wonder if the entire “fiscal conservative” persona was ever their real face at all, or was it merely a reactionary stance to the democrats when they were in power?

It’s just another example of the fact that there are both good and bad individuals within any party; one more reason why the 2-party system is largely a façade. It’s just a means to further individual agendas.

> It makes me wonder if the entire “fiscal conservative” persona was ever their real face at all, or was it merely a reactionary stance to the democrats when they were in power?

I've wondered that myself. Well, now that they're in the minority party, maybe they'll become "conservative" again. :-)

I'd prefer a conservative minority to a faux-conservative majority, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I would like more legislators to be more responsible with our money, but I am reluctant to join in a chorus of love for Tom Coburn:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/1/gr060101.html
http://feministing.com/archives/002669.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fran-visco/coburn-to-breast-cancer-c_b_30709.html

So yeah, I applaud Coburn's many efforts (this isn't new for him) to limit spending and get some openness into the spending and contracting process, but he's no hero generally and while I would like to see more legislators who try to handle the money responsibly, I don't want more Coburns.

WOW interesting stuff DBK!

Yiksees.

Tom Coburn? You've gotta be shitting me! See, now this is what I'm talking about, Barry. I mean, here is a guy who obsesses about lesbians in high school locker rooms in Oklahoma and who calls for the death penalty for physicians who perform a legal medical procecdure. But because he's a so-called fiscal conservative, a good libertarian like yourself is willing to overlook this stuff?

> But because he's a so-called fiscal conservative, a good libertarian like yourself is willing to overlook this stuff?

I'm not overlooking anything, and that's why I praised Coburn of "fiscal" issues, specifically. The fact of the matter is that the fiscal side of his record is sterling, and I give him props for that. I would love to have an entire Senate full of fiscal conservatives who were moderate/liberal on social issues, but those seem to be exceptionally rare beasts these days. Coburn's in the Senate right now whether we like it or not, so when he does something good, he deserves credit for it.

I wrote, "I would like more legislators to be more responsible with our money, but I am reluctant to join in a chorus of love for Tom Coburn." I recognize that Barry isn't praising Coburn's other positions, just his fiscal conservatism. However, Barry, and I know you know this, you elect all a representatives views when you elect him, not just this opinion of his but not the other. What I get from this discussion is that Barry is sufficiently enthusiastic about Coburn's fiscal conservatism to "accept" Coburn's repugnant social positions. I'm on the exact opposite end of that teeter-totter. I am sufficiently repulsed by Coburn's social stands to keep me from being very enthusiastic about him just because he is fiscally conservative.

Also, MY cynical nature wonder how much Coburn pieces off for his own earmarks and how much pork he brings back to his district. He can SAY he's against earmarks, but you have to look at the fine print to see if that isn't just for public consumption.

> However, Barry, and I know you know this, you elect all a representatives views when you elect him, not just this opinion of his but not the other.

But I elected zero percent of Tom Coburn! I've never voted for him, campaigned for him, endorsed him, or contributed financially to his campaign. Why do you and Jill jump to these conclusions that I must "accept" or "overlook" his social views just because I commend his fiscal record? All I've done is applaud his efforts on the budget. That's it. Period. Forget about the teeter-totter.

If I lived in Oklahoma, I don't know whether I'd vote for him or not. It would depend on who was running against him. I may decide, as I did with Rick Santorum this year, that the total package isn't worth it.

I don't feel the need to lump every politician in the world into "Good" and "Bad" camps, but Coburn did damn good work in this instance, and has done so in general when it comes to budgetary restraint.

Zilla, as always a sound and incisive post.

Believe it or not, there are Republicans who favor smaller government. We thought that we had elected them (including Bush).

We were wrong and we have, via this past election, sent a message to those in DC: don't play with us.

We are not some liberal bloc that always is obeisant to the Dems and their two year siren song.

The fact that the house GOP re-elected the same clowns who would have us eat cake has not sat well with me, either.

I will be watching to see some signs of penance.

I think I'm a little misread here, probably because of typos and failure express myself correctly. I know you never voted for Coburn, etc., and that you don't endorse all of his views. All I mean is that when anyone elects a representative, you elect all of that rep., not just the bits about him you like. Also, I retract my statement about "What I get from this discussion" as an over-reading of Barry's remarks. Sorry, Barry. My bad.

I stand by what I said about reading the fine print. Coburn may talk fiscal responsibility, but I haven't done the research to know whether the words match the deeds.

I probably just misread your remarks, DBK. But you do bring up a good point, and one that frustrates me no end. Finding a genuine fiscal conservative (by my definition of the term) is hard enough to begin with, but finding one who isn't also a social conservative is all but impossible. I don't know why that should be the case, but it is. Bummer.

Barry, living in the northeast it's easy to become inclined to believe that most of America is socially Liberal (I know you don't, but many do), when that's simply not the case.

Coburn's views on late term abortion, gay marriage, one commone moral standard (the Judeo-Christian one) for all Americans, etc., are not at all out of step with the majority of Americans outside the larger urban areas on both coasts.